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Yassine Meskhout's avatar

I really appreciate this series of posts.

The distinction between actions & actors is a very subtle but important idea, and it made me think about how many times I myself fall prey to the confusion. The scenario that most readily comes to mind is the discourse on killings by police in the US. I regularly cited the number of people killed (~1,000 per year on average) as *indicative* of a problem. As far as I can recall I've never offered the bare number as conclusive evidence of a problem with US policing, since 1) 1000 dead is a drop in the overall death bucket and 2) it doesn't tell us anything about which deaths were "justified". Necessarily, that one stat needs to be accompanied by other premises to shore up the overall argument.

Which dovetails into another point, which is that this post shouldn't be confused with the similar-looking phenomena involving the ecological fallacy or confounding variable problem. An example is examining the positive correlation between income & age, and then erroneously concluding this is proof of discrimination against the young. Similarly, one can examine the lopsided Palestinian casualties and erroneously conclude it's proof of animus/oppression/unfairness/etc. That seems to be a different fallacy from the distinction between actions & actors that you're describing in this post, but I can see how easily the two might get confused together.

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Jasnah Kholin's avatar

I mostly agree about the post, with one disagreement - i think that the judgment-by-harm sort of thinking become more prevalent in the Western World, and this is bad.

for example, there are places when person can shoot thief, demonstrating the self-defense logic. but more and more WEIRD people object to this, with the reasoning that this is disproportional reaction. criminal justice and homeless discussions in USA have the side that say that prison is too harsh and disproportional, and that if this is the price of self-defense people should let homeless be. courts accept less self-defense, and i expect that woman who actually shoot man who attempt to rape her (the link description is very deceptive!) will need to defend herself in court, and whatever the result will be, it will take a lot of time and money from her.

there is a movement of people who actually judge by consequences. it's have good synergy withe the progressive idea tat the underdog always right. the results are consistently bad.

so sadly, i believe that in this case the problem is not people who merely make bad arguments that are not their real reason nor will they convince anyone, but people who actually believable and follow wrong algorithm. or, rather, part of the people just use arguments as soldiers, but as such things tend to go, then people drink their own kool aid, and start truly believing it.

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